I SAID Interview up!!!

LOL Aw, I know it's early but do go check out my answers to Lena Nelson Dooley's interview questions. This is a very popular blog among those who enjoy the fiction put out by publishers who serve that very targeted demographic of Christians that I don't write for but appeal to.



Here's the link: Lena Nelson Dooley's Blog



Lena is one of the few bloggers who humor authors who come through general market publishers so let her know y'all appreciate it. I do because it's one of the RARE opportunities I have to reach those readers as most of the venues won't even list work from authors who don't write targeted fiction much less talk about them AND let them speak their mind!



Lena rawks!



Now go let her know it. ;)



You're incentive . . . you could win a copy of Electric Angel from just posting.

FamilyFiction.com? Why are ANY of my books listed here.

*Also and this is a big also, FamilyFiction.com is associated with if not run by the same folks who treat authors like me like the scum of the earth and were the ones responsible for this blog post I made Sue Dent Unprofessional. You wouldn't list me then. You better dang well not list me now. Or if you do, then list the right books. Forever Richard isn't even in print anymore. AND I'm the publisher of the copy of Never Ceese they're posting and they didn't even bother to contact me. Sorry. No can do. Take it down.*

First of all here's the link so you can see for yourself. FamilyFiction.Com Now here's the scoop!

What? What? What?

I don't support sites that discriminate based on denomination. And this site won't even list books unless they're written specifically for an "evangelical" audience. I was told when I first inquired about sites "like" this that I'd, at the very least, have to have my books approved by Ingram's "evangelical" arm Spring Arbor. I was then told, after both of my books were approved that my I'd have to have a targeted publisher. EGADS!!!

After I heard this I pulled both Never Ceese and Forever Richard out Spring Arbor Distribution as it was a worthless venture on all counts even if it was free. So now this sites and sites like it are listing my books. AND THEY CAN'T EVEN ORDER THEM because neither is available through Spring Arbor anymore. Not only that, Forever Richard is out of print AND they have the wrong cover posted.

Say it once, say it twice, say it three times, I don't support sites that openly discriminate. If you want to list my books then that's fine. But get the information correct and list the books that are currently selling. Again I DO NOT write for this market. Sites like this list my books without even asking AND they don't even list the right ones. For the love of God, if you're not going to help somebody out at least don't drag them down with you. Either list the correct books or don't list them at all. This is your first warning.

B &N Screws yet another author. And they're working the big dogs now!

I came across an interesting post on my FB page two days ago, from another author. As usual, I checked the publisher. I don't want any authors writing for publishers who discriminate based on denomination littering my page. Well this author actually did write for one of those publishers. His latest book was published by Stone House, Wesscott Marketing's "Christian" arm. I raised my finger to hit unfriend when something stopped me. I'm not sure what it was but something said, "hold up. Give him a chance."

So I perused his FB wall and found from his recent post that he was recently screwed by Barnes & Noble. Still I felt little remorse. After all, he's published by "one of those" publishers. I perused his wall a little longer to find him freely using words like "ass" and "f&*k" and oh MY!!! LOL Maybe I was wrong about Stone House. Maybe they weren't targeting that "Christian" market at all.

As it turns out Vincent Zandri is a straight up kind of guy (whom I'm quite honored to have met.) He's been published by some of the big dog publishers (in the day when such a thing was possible and actually happened.) His Barnes & Noble nightmare is outlined here in a blog post he made on his blog. It pretty much mirrors ALL the experiences EVERY small press or self-pubbed author is going through and has gone through since forever. Only now it's waaaaaay worse.

As I said in another blog, there is no mystery behind why chain bookstores are failing. They refuse to embrace that publishers exist outside their little world of Simon & Schuster and Random House and Knopf and the list goes on. It isn't the economy and it certainly isn't technology that's bringing them down. If anything technology has leveled the playing field. It has done what needs to be done.

Watch large publishers as they try to maintain a foothold outside their little story-book fairy tale of an existence. Welcome to the Jungle remains my motto.

My feelings on Stone House publishing taking on Vince Zandri, well I certainly have some but I'll keep from sharing them here. ;D

Feel free to ask though.

UGH!!!

I don't mind google ads really as it seems they're here to stay. And I do understand that these ads are targeted ads based on what a viewer has viewed in the past. But God as my witness, I am having a VERY DIFFICULT time dealing with seeing ChristianBook.com ads show up on each and everything I view simply because I often use the label Christian etc . . . Especially in light of the fact that they are a heavily discriminating on-line bookstore that ONLY automatically lists books from fee paying CBA and ECPA affiliated publishers (and now some non-affiliated copy-cat publishers) and NEVER books from a publisher/author who has gone through the trouble of having their work approved by Spring Arbor because the publisher/author was told that doing so would make their books available to the "Christian" market. Bull hockey!!!!

Change your name or change the way you operate. Nothing right about this. The only way I can keep from being offended is to stop using the label Christian. Guess what ain't gonna stop happening!

Just to remind you . . .

. . . or perhaps to clarify, I do not write for, nor have I EVER written for, that specific market of readers that CBA (and now many other copy-cat publishers) were set up to serve in 1950. My stories have general market appeal. I did begin to market to those specific readers not realizing how this would affect marketing my book. I even went as far as to have my books approved by Spring Arbor as I was told this was Ingram's Christian arm and doing so would enable me to get my books into Christian bookstores, on-line and otherwise. All it really did was make my books available for order in brick & mortar Christian bookstore and able to show up on most on-line Christian bookstores but not the larger ones that cater to affiliated and targeted publishers of which I'm not one.

I had my books unapproved by Spring Arbor so now Christian Bookstores can't even order my books if you want one. ;D However, on-line stores are still posting it as available. It isn't available and they won't be able to get it for you. I hate to show up on these sites as it implies I write for a market that doesn't support any author but those who write for a very targeted market and mostly only those who pay to be affiliated.

Just wanted to make sure y'all know I didn't sell out.

I didn't.

I still write for the general market and I still appeal to readers who enjoy work that targeted market publishers (affiliated and otherwise) put out. I'd also like to add to my author friends who frequent my blog, approval by Spring Arbor is free and easy but there is absolutely no advantage to signing up. In fact, I've yet to find a reason why they exist.

When Will Reign of Terror End

I was emailing another Christian book site that just went up, attempting to determine if this site would be any different than the other 50 million "Christian" book sites that are out there. The response I got in return was this: ". . .we're just working as hard as possible to get as much book and author content on the site as possible. To this end, we've started with CBA authors . . . "

Guess the answer to my question is "yes, it will be JUST like the other 50 million "Christian" book sites out there." Which means seeing more heavily targeted fiction advertised as appealing to all Christians and not just denominationally targeted readers. And to the exclusion of any publisher who doesn't write for that targeted, exclusive market. These sites don't even make an effort to find fiction that appeals to more than just the targeted, exclusive audience CBA and ECPA serve.

Why?

Because one actually has to read the book to find these. They're broken up into genre and are mixed in with all the other general market books. You know, like C. S. Lewis and Tolkien etc . . . Actually these sites could automatically list books that have been approved by Ingram/Spring Arbor for distribution to the Christian market but they don't even do that. Won't even try. They simply go straight for CBA and ECPA affiliation and list those books straight away and usually ONLY. Most are getting a little wiser and throwing in a few books from targeted publishers who aren't affiliated which is ridiculous when all they have to do as a start is to list the books Spring Arbor approves.

When will this reign of terror end indeed?

The above response I received was from Family Fiction when I queried them wondering why they went straight to affiliated publishers for their Christian books. *Sue shakes head disappointed.*

Ingram's Spring Arbor

****** Please note that when I first drafted this blog I linked Tom Pigott to a Publisher's weekly article that placed him as the original owner of Spring Arbor before it was bought up by Ingram. As it happens that link is no more. Hmmmm . . . . Publishers Weekly articles rarely just disappear but I'm off to investigate and find it again. ;)

Okay found another link but the name is now Richard Pigott which I believe is Tom's father and this isn't the article I initially pointed to. Going to keep looking for that.

Yep. The article is no more. The original line from the article read as copied:

. . .(his father, Tom [Pigott], sold Spring Arbor to Ingram in 1997).

So yes, it's difficult to provide information when the articles you point to keep getting pulled.
******

What's going on with Spring Arbor anyway? I'm fairly certain that when Ingram purchased Spring Arbor from Tom Pigott in 1997 they didn't plan on pursuing the exact same closed, denominationally discriminative targeted market CBA was set up to serve in 1950 (and then ECPA (a group of CBA publishers) organized in the seventies) but it seems CBA member bookstores plans to make them tow the line, if you will. Because even though Ingram/Spring Arbor approves books by authors whose publishers don't belong to the fee-based Christian Booksellers (trade) Association and who don't write within restrictive guidelines to appeal to visitors of the once aptly named Baptist Bookstores,

member bookstores continue to reject books not from fee-paying member publishers.

It would seem then that CBA still runs the show. There are tons of marketing options for CBA member publishers and authors through Ingram's Spring Arbor yet NOTHING for all the "other" authors Spring Arbor approves for distribution to the Christian market.

You have to be a fee-paying member to take advantage.

So is Spring Arbor still owned by CBA or what?

Of course they are!

Doesn't matter if your book is approved by Ingram's Spring Arbor if you don't pay CBA their fee and write targeted fiction for a very denominational group of readers, then you still don't get into member Christian Bookstores. That in itself is no big deal when you understand that member Christian bookstores are ONLY for CBA and ECPA approved books.

As an author, the goal is to have a presence in any bookstore where readers show an interest in your work. I submitted both of my books for approval by Ingram's Spring Arbor after having many readers from CBA's closed market enjoy my story. Both stories were approved but NO member Christian Bookstore would let me in to do signings or even allow me to place a few books in stores where I knew customers were. And the reason given was that I needed a member publisher to have published my book. But I'd already contacted member publishers and they all told me my work didn't fit their denominationally discriminative guidelines.

So how is it that CBA and ECPA affiliated publishers can freely place their books in general market bookstores (not ABA bookstores as CBAer's refer to them) but can discriminate and keep non-affiliated Spring Arbor approved Christian authors completely out of their stores? They never planned on letting any book into their stores unless it was from a fee-paying CBA member. They got you Ingram!

Keep in mind, Christian is a broad term not one that marks a particular denomination. If a bookstore doesn't represent what all Christians want to see then the bookstore should be aptly renamed. No one accidentally walks into a LDS Christian bookstore without knowing where they are or a Catholic bookstore. CBA member bookstores used to be called Baptist bookstores. It is my opinion they should go back to that.

I've since asked to have Never Ceese unapproved for distribution to the Christian market. As you can guess it made no difference because approval to Spring Arbor means nothing for anyone not even for CBA affiliated authors.

Do remember and keep in mind also that Ingram/Spring Arbor has a vested interest in CBA. Why they're a fee-paying member. No there's no bias there whatsoever. Good Lord!

Is Spring Arbor CBA? Of course they are. A fee paying member!

**And by "of course they are," let me reiterate that this is MY opinion and based on what I consider being a part of something is. That's just in case someone wants to get technical. Ingram/Spring Arbor and CBA will most assuredly claim otherwise based on their own interpretation. Does it matter? Not really.**

The wonderful thing about having your own blog is that you can deal with things in your own yard. So here's a comment left on one of my post that I felt was important enough to address here section by section otherwise you get bogged down in the sort of double-speak. The italics is from the writer and my response follows. I found it to be a very intriguing response.

From Eric Grimm purportedly of CBA. At least that's the way he signed the blog entry.


Hi Sue, CBA is a trade association and has nothing to do with deciding which books a wholesaler or distributor, such as Ingram/Spring Arbor, carries or sells.

Ingram/Spring Arbor is Ingram's so-called Christian arm which is why many call it Ingram/Spring Arbor and not Baker & Taylor/Spring Arbor or name-your-distributor here/Spring Arbor. You see no other distributor/wholesaler has a specific "Christian" arm that I'm aware of.

And of course the Christian Booksellers Association, a trade association, has nothing to do with deciding which books Ingram/Spring Arbor approves for distribution to the "Christian" market now that Spring Arbor is owned by Ingram and not run and owned by CBA the trade association that spawned it and sold it to Ingram way back when. HOWEVER and this is a BIG however, books "approved" for distribution to the "Christian" market by Ingram/Spring Arbor have no more hope at seeing the inside of a "Christian" bookstore than any book not approved. The only books that automatically and without question see the inside of a "Christian" bookstore on-line or otherwise are those published by CBA affiliated publishers who write for a very targeted and denominationally restrictive audience. I still can't get into a Lifeway or a Mardel's or any other "Christian" bookstore and that's with both titles being approved by Spring Arbor. The only thing that can happen is those bookstores CAN order them if someone wants one. Of course no one promised otherwise so I guess that's okay.

CBA does not charge fees to stores to carry books.

Who said they did? CBA charges fees to publishers who want to have their books in denominationally exclusive "Christian" Bookstores. And of course they require them to write within denominationally discriminative guidelines. Interesting to note too that no publisher who is affiliated with CBA has to seek approval from Ingram/Spring Arbor. Well isn't that interesting.


Spring Arbor Distributors is a division of Ingram Book Group, a private company.

True dat! But then that's pretty obvious.

CBA has no ownership, investment, or other financial connection to the company.

Okay.

Spring Arbor is a CBA member.
Ooops, that's sort of a financial connection so forget the okay from a moment ago. This comment sort of negates that one.

CBA does not censor books

Ridiculous statement. They do censor books all day long. They sensor them to appeal to their core market audience and admittedly do so. Many member publishers even go as far as to list the very restrictive submission guidelines. Amazing that someone would make the statement that this doesn't happen. CBA was formed in 1950 by Baptist Bookstores of the day so that they could provide store visitors with targeted fiction that wouldn't offend them. They've not moved far enough away from that agenda to appeal to anyone other than that very "closed" market.

or otherwise prohibit trade association members from buying what they want to purchase or sell.

This part is true. But who cares. It doesn't mean anything.

Retailers sell books based on what their customers will purchase, not on a discriminatory selection process,

"Christian" retailers or rather CBA member stores sell books based on whether they are put out by member publishers. Sorry. Done that. Been there. Was hung up on by each and every member store I called even after I told them my book was approved for distribution to the "Christian" market by Ingram/Spring Arbor. They look at affiliation first, then they'll consider it second if it fits their core-market audience. But that's on a store by store basis.


other Christian stores sell products that reflect who their customers are, which mostly they are active Christians.

Other Christian stores? I assume you mean non-member Christian stores. Who knows.

Bottom line is it's a waste of time to seek approval from Ingram/Spring Arbor as the only benefit is that a non CBA title can be ordered through CBA member Christian bookstores. So authors save yourself the time and headache. It ain't worth it!!!!

Christianbook.com for targeted fiction only.

I must say I was never more pleased than when my stories began to appeal to readers whom I never thought would enjoy my work. Right away I began to get my books into venues where these readers shop on-line and otherwise.

www.Christianbook.com is one such venue. When I contacted Christianbook.com as the publisher concerning being listed I was told this:

. . . we do not automatically carry all books published by Christian publishers, it would be up to Spring Arbor to contact us on your behalf and submit your book for consideration. We do not work directly with authors so you should contact your publisher to be sure they have contacted us. They should be able to make direct contact with our Buying Department.

First of all Spring Arbor is not a publisher and does not speak for any one publishing house. That's the publisher's job. Secondly, I stated I was the publisher. Thirdly when they say they don't automatically carry all books by all Christian publishers what do they mean?

Actually I really don't care. What concerns me is that an on-line bookstore seems to be discriminating in spite of making claims to the contrary. Here's a link that suggest strongly that Christianbook.com does indeed discriminate against Christian publisher/authors based on denomination and association. It's sad to think this sort of discrimination is honored.

I did finally get a hold of someone who stated, "oh, well we're not taking on any new publishers at the time," *go figure* but you can go to our FAQ and figure out just what we're looking for when we are accepting new publishers. Here it is:

2.3 I have a product. Can I get it listed with Christianbook.com?

Thank you for your interest in having Christian Book Distributors and Christianbook.com carry your product. Please be advised, though, that we do not accept any unsolicited product queries, proposals, or manuscripts. We simply cannot accommodate the numerous requests we receive and we do not review any materials sent to us; but we'd be happy to suggest other resources for assistance.

First, let us recommend the Christian Writers' Market Guide by Sally E. Stuart. This helpful book details submission guidelines and procedures for all Christian publishing houses that will accept unsolicited manuscripts. In it you will find a wealth of information to help you with your goals.

Also, the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association (www.ECPA.org) offers a manuscript consideration service at www.ChristianManuscriptSubmissions.com. All book proposals posted to this site are available for viewing by every member of ECPA, providing worthwhile exposure to many publishers.

Finally, you may want to browse the "Editorial Services" chapter in Literary Market Place, published annually by R.R. Bowker. The section lists more than 500
professional organizations, many of which provide critique services relating to content, presentation, and marketing.

Please click on the following link to visit our Author Resources page for additional outlets for aspiring authors/artists. We wish you well in your pursuit!

So there you have it. The ECPA are a group of CBA affiliated publisher who write targeted fiction for evangelicals specifically. You have to be a member to even get access to their manuscript service. The Christian Publishing Houses listed in Sally's Stuarts guide, the last time I checked, were all publishers who target evangelicals and more sepcifically CBA affiliated.

And finally, these are all resources and not ways to for a publisher to get listed on Christianbook.com. While there are books on this site that aren't targeted fiction they are few and faaaaaaaaaaaarrrrr between.

So, it's save to say Christianbook.com is only interested in listing books targeting a very discriminating market of Christians. And before anyone says, "well, they have the right to operate anyway they want to" just remember that I never said they didn't. It is my opinion that they should be more open about what they will and won't allow on their site otherwise it's misleading. I spent A LOT of time having my work approved for distribution to the Christian market so I could sell my work in places such as this because I have readers here. Now I learn that this was a grandious waste of time!!!!

The kind of review that just makes you go--WoW!

*Note: I believe Flo is using CBC in connection with CBA. The acronyms are confusing. And actually I'm talking about CBA Christian Booksellers Association and not CBA Catholic Bible Association. HA!*

See. I know there is a God when I get reviews dropped in my in-box that read like this one. Not that I ever doubted HE exist. Not that I'll ever doubt it. ;) But oh my LORD what a thing to hear this morning. LOVE YOU FLO!!! Do read on:

Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I just finished "Never Ceese" for the second time. I so enjoyed it this time. I don't know if you experience this, but sometimes if I read one author or one style for a long time, then switch to another, it doesn't sit with me well. Honestly, that's what happened to me the first time around. But this time, it was awesome.

I was reading your blog and noticed that you were getting ripped off by publishers, and I have to say, with great remorse, I bought both books, Never Ceese and Forever Richard off Amazon. I am so sorry that you did not get the benefit.

I was curious as to why CBC is at odds with you, you seemed to indicate it's due to "denominational" differences. Honestly, I'm surprised as I see them publishing many writers I wouldn't think of having in my house. I thought they seemed pretty loose in their "denominationalism". I am not overly impressed with much of the fiction that comes from them. I quit the "Left Behind" series, because I got to the point where I was pleading for the return of Jesus to put us out of the misery of the abysmal writing. (Much as I plead for the return of Jesus in real life to put us out of the misery of this abysmal world.) I went through my prairie reading days, but got sick of traveling across America over and over again, women getting pregnant, dying, babies dying, unmarked graves blah blah blah ad nauseum.

Anyway, thanks so much for taking the time to author and do some really creative work. And thanks for keeping vamps and werewolves evil ... I am finding that even vampires just "have a disease" now (cough, twilight, cough, cough), the world is even trying to deny the evil of our fictional creatures. yikes!!!

Have a great day.

Flo

If Flo isn't a writer she should be one!!! I absolutely loved this line from her review:

I quit the "Left Behind" series, because I got to the point where I was pleading for the return of Jesus to put us out of the misery of the abysmal writing. (Much as I plead for the return of Jesus in real life to put us out of the misery of this abysmal world.)

ROFL Exactly! All affiliated publishers such as Thomas Nelson, Waterbrook/Multnomah and even some non-affiliated houses who use the label "Christian Fiction" to define their work write for a highly targeted niche market of Christians and not general market readers at all. It's a very real problem for those of us authors who are also Christians, but write for a broader market of Christians. If we use the label Christian in any context we're thrown in with this CBA niche market of watered down denominationl writing. Sad, sad, sad. *Sue dries her eyes and moves on.*

But do pay attention to what Flo wrote here:

Anyway, thanks so much for taking the time to author and do some really creative work. And thanks for keeping vamps and werewolves evil ... I am finding that even vampires just "have a disease" now (cough, twilight, cough, cough), the world is even trying to deny the evil of our fictional creatures. yikes!!!

I bolded the significant points. ;D 

Flo you are wonderful! Absolutely wonderful. I'm not even sure you know how wonderful you are but you made my um . . . year!

Attention bookstores who chose distribution through Spring Arbor.

Initially I had my books submitted for approval to Spring Arbor thinking that this would make it easier for my blatantly Christian readers to find my work. It was not divulged at the time by either distributor that Spring Arbor was Ingram's CBA's exclusive fundamentalist Christian arm. I'd only ever seen wording that suggested this exclusive Christian arm of Ingram was for all publishers who seemed to have a large blatantly Christian following and wanted to get their work in front of those readers. After all, Spring Arbor approves books by publishers who don't belong to Spring Arbor's non-CBA market. I know, right?

How ridiculous to waste a publisher's time by suggesting approval to a particular targeted and discriminative market would give that non-participating publisher access to that market. But hey that's Ingram and they can do whatever they like.

Since belonging to Spring Arbor does nothing for non-CBA participating publishers or authors (except to make the books available for purchase through participating bookstores who won't allow non-participating publishers in, I will withdraw my approval.

This actually doesn't affect anything BUT for those Christian bookstores who only sign up with Spring Arbor to get the few CBA titles they want (which they have to buy so many of that they can't afford to stock non-CBA Christian titles, you'll have to order my books directly from Ingram. I've no intention of being a token publisher to an industry that discriminates based on denomination. If you're a bookstore who only accepts books through Spring Arbor then that would make you a fundamentalist discriminating bookstore and well you'll be happy to know you'll never be able to make any money off my titles. ;)

My books are available anywhere the sun shines and everywhere it doesn't but as of today, they will NOT be available for you to order through ANY Christian bookstore that orders through Spring Arbor. DUH!

Thanks Spring Arbor for being so up front about things. LSI too. They didn't say one word about it.

Ingram/Spring Arbor calls it . . . Marketing?

I've heard misleading called a lot of things before and I suppose I've heard it called marketing as well so good on you Ingram for taking hold of that tried and true tradition of misleading until you're called on it. Perhaps you should ask eHarmony how that worked out for them.

Why would I bring eHarmony up? Why because Spring Arbor is the distributor for the same group--conservative evangelicals or rather Fundamentalists as Ingram calls them. Yes. I finally heard it straight from Ingram this very day. Even though Spring Arbor will approve books from a Christian publisher who doesn't pay to belong to the very targeted and denominationally discriminative CBA, the non-affiliated publisher benefits in no way whatsoever. Okay. That's inaccurate. If your book is approved by Spring Arbor a Fundamentalist Christian Bookstore can order if someone ask for it.

Rest assured then, that if a Christian Bookstore exists, it is a Fundamentalist Conservative Evangelical bookstore and can only pull books from Spring Arbor who by Ingram's own admission is their Fundamentalist Christian arm which they happily call the Official Christian Market without batting an eye because well ... that's just good marketing.

Yeah. And eHarmony.com was just a dating website . . . that didn't allow same-sex dating until somebody sued them . . . and won.

Yes. It's all fun and games until someone gets sued. HA! So, just to keep it straight, according to Ingram all Christian titles that don't appeal to the Fundamentalist can just wing it while fee-based, denominationally discriminating CBA gets to claim the title Official Christian Market.

Marketing at it's best!!!

Thanks Ingram for showing us how it's done. Based on this information I will now pull both of my books from Spring Arbor as I was not aware that Spring Arbor wasn't actually who they said they were. They justified this by saying, "it's free to join." LOLROFL I suppose the most disturbing comment made was "there's nothing wrong with providing a market for the fundamentalist Christian publisher." Buddy, there's everything wrong with it when you don't state this up front.

So in a bit you won't be able to order my books from ANY Christian bookstore. However denominationally discriminating CBA publishers can go anywhere they like.

And that my friends, according to Ingram is Marketing!

And they get away with it.

And yes. I'll shut up about Spring Arbor now but I will never refer to them as simply Spring Arbor ever again. They are officially Ingram's Christian Fundamentalist arm.

Good day.

More on 2001 PW article on Spring Arbor

I have to confess, I didn't actually read through the PW article I posted a link to concerning who actually sold CBA's Spring Arbor to Ingram . . . but boy I should have. LOL

Here's a telling quote from the article:

Knapp told PW, "We think we can become the company that Spring Arbor used to be. We will reposition and reengineer Riverside from a niche, regional distributor to a full-line, full-service Christian distributor. No one's doing that anymore."

Become the company Spring Arbor used to be. Really? You mean make it denominationally discriminative once more? Well congratulations Mr. Knapp! You did it . . . at least according to the response I got from Spring Arbor in regards to having them provide me with a list of ALL their authors new releases including those authors who aren't CBA approved. According to that response from Ingram's Spring Arbor NO book that isn't CBA approved is a Spring Arbor title. Nine years later and you seem to have done exactly what you set out to do. Impressive.

No one has ever tried to "reposition and reengineer a niche market to look like something other than a niche market except CBA. Kudos on that too.

Love this:

He[Knapp] added, "We'll double the title base beyond what Appalachian and Anchor offer, shorten delivery times and do it without a multiwarehouse national network." Asked how, Knapp declined to give details.

Don't get me started on folks who "decline to give details."

Fiction continues to be the hot category, even independent of the Left Behind juggernaut. Last year the first Christy Awards for excellence in Christian fiction were established by a consortium of publishers--including Bethany House, Baker Book House, Broadman & Holman, Multnomah, Thomas Nelson, Tyndale House, Zondervan and others.

Left Behind juggernaut. A series that has non-CBA Christian readers running for cover when they hear another installment is out. Of course you get that kind of response when you attempt to feed niche market writing to the general market. Best to call it niche CBA work so folks will know before hand that they don't want to read it.

Made a comment to someone last night that it's sad that a denominationally discriminative award can operate and not have to say that the books up for an award are only from fee-paying CBA affiliated publishers. Sad INDEED! All the publishers listed above are CBA affiliated publishers.

The 95-store Lifeway chain is conducting a controlled study of the effectiveness of merchandising fiction by subcategory.

LOL Yeah. Right. They don't carry anything unless it comes through a CBA publisher. Well, not until the book sells enough to get their attention then they'll wave their magic wand and BAM you're in. And that's even IF you have Spring Arbor approval.

A new branding campaign was announced by Tyndale House, which has brought all its children's product together in one catalogue. Tyndale has also partnered with Dorling Kindersley in a new line of children's books that will carry both publishers' names and be sold into CBA by Tyndale and into ABA accounts by DK.

Why does this remind me of Pinky and the Brain? So CBA affiliated and denominationally discriminative Tyndale House will now get their denominationally discriminative work listed in ABA catalogue's because they joined forces with non-CBA affiliated Dorling Kindersley. They wouldn't have to do this if Spring Arbor weren't CBA affiliated . . . as they once were . . . then claimed they weren't but now are again . . . but they just don't say so.

Look for my book soon on the Spring Arbor and CBA's plans to "take over the world!" LOL No really. I'm writing a book. ;)

Give them enough rope!!!

I love it when a plan comes together. I was recently given a sign-in and password to Spring Arbor/Ingrams Ipage. This is supposedly where Christian (meaning CBA and non-CBA affiliated stores) go to get information on titles etc . . . I was given a login and password because I was looking for a list of titles of all the non-CBA affiliated books out there approved by Spring Arbor. You know, from the mass of publishers and authors that seek Spring Arbor approval to get into Christian bookstores. Of course no list exist as such or none that I could find so I sent a question off those who run Ipage.

Well, well, well, here's the response I got back. Crack open a 6-pack (of your preferred drink of course) and enjoy:


Sue Dent,

Thank you for contacting us. Books that are not CBA approved are not designated as Spring Arbor titles however, those titles may be available via other Ingram channels.

Unfortunately, we are unable to provide such a list however, an Ingram Top 100 Sales list is available under Featured Shortcuts in the left hand margin of the ipage homepage.

We apologize for any inconvenience.

Regards,

Ingram Book Company
Customer Care


Come again! Books that are not approved by CBA, a fee-based, denominationally discriminative affiliation that represents a very unique and closed market of Christian readers (and no others) are not designated as Spring Arbor Titles?

Well hidy-ho!!!!

CBA never sold Spring Arbor to Ingram. Spring Arbor is still only for CBA publishers. Good one CBA. Way go Ingram. What a crock!! So if any of you seeking Spring Arbor approval, who don't belong to CBA, think you'll actually gain anything for doing so . . . guess again. You gain nothing!!!

Wow! I guess Spring Arbor is CBA.

I went to SpringArbor.com to find out where or if I could get a list of books coming out through publishers who didn't pay for or write with in denominationally restrictive guidelines or rather weren't affiliated with the highly discriminating CBA market (you may visit cba.org to find out who their market actually is) and I found this wording under Technology Tools.

Spring Arbor supplies the most comprehensive book data in the CBA industry and we offer a variety of electronic tools designed to help you more efficiently do your job.

Okay. What about book data for all of the publishers Spring Arbor has approved who don't pay to belong to CBA? Why can't CBA do their own data base since the CBA market is an entirely different market who doesn't allow Spring Arbor's other publishers books into their bookstores?

Ipage provides 24/7 access to title information, real-time stock checks, order tracking, account management, industry news, and much more. companion, our CD-ROM based tool, provides the most robust search engine available and allows you to manage customer contacts.

All title information on all publishers and authors approved by Spring Arbor or just information on CBA affiliated publishers and their titles?

So far I've not seen any way to get a list of titles of Spring Arbor approved books that is anything other than CBA affiliated titles. Therefore Spring Arbor is CBA and might as well still be owned by this discriminating Christian market. So sad.

Yes. This is for aspiring authors/publishers.

Aspiring authors and publishers interested in learning ALL about the Christian market so they don't get burned, that is.

Not that long ago a poster on one of my blogs called me on supposedly saying that CBA actually sold Spring Arbor to Ingram claiming that this broad statement was inaccurate. Fair enough. I do my homework. So here's the skinny pulled from a VERY interesting article I found on PW. Well, it's interesting if you understand anything about the "Christian" market:

. . .(his father, Tom [Pigott], sold Spring Arbor to Ingram in 1997).

Sorry. I know nothing else about why this transaction happened or why CBA ever thought Ingram wouldn't approve books that didn't come through a CBA affiliated publisher (or rather a publisher who doesn't pay CBA a fee so they can actually show up inside a larger Christian Bookstore and who is bound to write for a particular and specific audience of Christians and not the broader audience.)

I do know that Spring Arbor approval means nothing in the entire scheme of things. Larger Christian bookstores still only allow affiliated publishers into their bookstores both on-line and Brick and Mortar with the only non-affiliated Christian authors getting in if they sell a lot of books on their own and the theme is close enough to consider acceptable. You know, like The Shack.

I also know that Spring Arbor can't MAKE larger Christian bookstores carry books approved by Spring Arbor so what's the point of seeking Spring Arbor approval?

Also, on an interesting note, today I called Spring Arbor to ask if there were any marketing programs they offered approved authors and was told that no, they weren't aware of any but they'd check and call me back.

The next thing I get is an e-mail from Lightning Source [my POD publisher] that tells me LSI is aware I called a buyer at Spring Arbor [incaccurate. I called a marketing representative] to discuss having a book approved for the CBA market [inaccurate. I'm not stupid enough to ask for something that can't be done.] LSI then told me to contact them with further questions regarding matters such as this?

I'm pretty sure I won't be calling LSI with questions about Spring Arbor! LOL

The above story of today's experience is merely indicative of how much of a hold one fee-based, denominationally restricted affiliation has on an entire market.

To quote a line from a famous movie:

"There is no Dana. Only Zuul." Ghostbusters

or rather

"There is no Spring Arbor. Only CBA."

A most humbling review and recent!

A most humbling review and recent. If only those who should see it would see it but the chances of that are slim to nil. So for those of you who do read it be sure and pass it on. And for those who don't know Mr. Jon Guenther, hop over to his website at www.guenfire.com and check him out. He's written many novels and sold worldwide in large numbers. I can only hope to one day write as well as he does and to have my work sell as well as his does. Here's an excerpt from his Amazon review of Never Ceese click on it to read the review in it's entirety.

". . .In a manner eerily reminiscent of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, but laced with a style that need make no apologies for its freshness, Sue Dent takes us on a grand tale of Richard the vampire and Ceese the werewolf . . ."

If you not read Jon Guenther's Soul Runner, your missing something fantastic!

What being flagged for the Christian market means.

******Repost for my non-affiliated Christian author friends. Boring to anyone else***

I try to provide information to new authors as I go through things myself. One thing I'm able to share now is just what being flagged for the Christian market means.

Some facts:

* Ingram/Spring Arbor is the main line of distribution for the Christian market.

* An author does not have to be published by a CBA or ECPA affiliated publisher to have their work considered and deemed Christian.

But does being flagged for the Christian market by Ingram/Spring Arbor mean immediate distribution into any of the bigger Christian Booksellers stores? Of course not. Neither does having distribution through Ingram mean you get into any of the bigger general market bookstores.

However, without having Ingram/Spring Arbor distribution or rather being flagged for the Christian market, no Christian Book Store on-line or otherwise can even order your book.

Before you rush right out to submit your book to Ingram/Spring Arbor you might consider this. While Ingram/Spring Arbor will bring books into distribution that aren't affiliated with the two gatekeeper associations created by Christian Book Stores in the 1960's to make sure the work put out didn't offend their market, they can't guarantee you anything.

If you check with the larger Christian Book Sellers such as Lifeway and Mardels you'll find that while they do get distribution through Ingram/Spring Arbor they'll recheck any title that comes into their store for acceptance by their conservative evangelical market. Lifeway even goes as far as to question books provided by CBA and ECPA affiliated publishers, the very associations they helped spawn in the 1960s.

Bottom line, pay attention. If some of your readers come from that targeted market CBA and ECPA serve and you want to get to those readers where they shop, submit your book to Ingram/Spring Arbor. Though most bigger Christian booksellers won't put it on their shelf, at least they can order it if a customer ask for it.

It's also helpful to remember that all bigger Christian Book Sellers do target a particular Christian market and not the broader Christian market. That's why they subject all books coming in to another round of scrutiny before they even think about putting anything on their shelf. Books published by the bigger CBA and ECPA affiliated publishers like Thomas Nelson, Zondervan, Bethany House, Nav Press, David C. Cook do automatically go on the shelves though Christian Books Sellers won't hesitate to pull them if a customer says something. And yes, one customer can actually make a difference.

Some comments made somewhere else where I posted this and my responses:

C. says - Great information Sue! Thanks!
God bless!
C.

Sue says - Thank you C. I find it extremely interesting how little authors actually know about Ingram/Spring Arbor. I know I was clueless. I actually thought once I was in, I could finally do signings at my local Lifeway. Nope. Lifeway is exclusive to their own specific niche market. But at least a customer can get your book if they want to order it if you have distribution through Spring Arbor.

Now I learn all of the bigger Christian Book Sellers are like this, exclusive to a specific Christian market. CBA and ECPA affiliated publishers have to be getting worried as now it seems the larger Christian Book Sellers are even turning on them! YIKES! What is the world coming to. :)

D. says - Info from someone who has been down the road - totally the most valuable info I have seen in a long time.

Sue says - Thank you D. :) I wish I could say I knew it all. I also wish I could say that what I've learned doesn't make me wonder why CBA and ECPA affiliated publishers believe they are the Christian market. They're a large part of it yes, if money has anything to say about it but that's it.

And now these affiliated publishers who wanted to fill affiliated Christian book stores with their targeted fiction (so their readers could find them of course,) are leaving Christian bookstores in droves. And they don't want their work in the Christian section the general market bookstores now provide, they want their targeted fiction mixed in with the general market fiction. Can you say running around in a big OL' Circle?

CBA and ECPA affiliated publishers are breaking their necks to say they don't write targeted fiction. Michael Hyatt can't seem to say it enough lately. Yet they do. It's the audience they were created to serve. Sure. They've loosened up a little, gotten a little "edgier" if you will. (I personally hate that word) but they still write for a targeted audience and should be in the Christian section and nowhere near the bookshelves where general market fiction sits.

What are markets for if not to help readers find things?

What does distribution through Spring Arbor mean?

This is a repost for any new readers.

*warning: Please don't read this if you choose not to be bored. This is for aspiring authors and writers. Actually, they may even get bored but I found it worth sharing.* :)

What does distribution through Spring Arbor mean? To answer this question you have to understand who Spring Arbor was originally. A distribution outlet created to handle work produced by CBA affiliated publishers with CBA being an association formed in 1950 by a group of Christian Booksellers. The Baptist Bookstores, as they were called, decided to create an association called the Christian Booksellers Association. They charged publishers to write narrowly targeted, sanitized and Biblically correct fiction (according to conservative evangelicals) that would appeal to their bookstore visitors. In return for the money the publishers paid, they'd be guaranteed a spot on shelves of all Christian bookstores (again, Baptist Bookstores only.)

Clearly CBA publishers didn't need help from the usual distributors such as Ingram or Baker & Taylor because the books they were producing were for a specific targeted market to begin with, and a specific group of bookstores only. After all this was an attempt to get more customers into the Baptist Bookstores not general market bookstores. Spring Arbor was the distributor.

CBA and later ECPA (the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association, a group set up by affiliated publishers,) grew and did well with their market readers. At some point however, and for reasons beyond this authors/bloggers understanding, CBA decided that work produced by affiliated publishers now needed to be in larger bookstores as well. *scratching head at this. I thought the whole point in 1950 was for CBA to bring customers into the Baptist bookstores now called larger Christian booksellers, not send them elsewhere.*

Yet Spring Arbor wasn't set up for distribution to the general market bookstores. The solution must have seemed obvious: merge Spring Arbor with Ingram or perhaps Ingram asked to buy up Spring Arbor who knows. Nevertheless, the deal was struck and Spring Arbor is now officially Ingram's Christian arm.

What does this mean for CBA affiliated publishers?

That question is easily answered. CBA affiliated publishers could now easily get distribution everywhere!

What did this mean for all authors who are Christian and write work that doesn't offend many readers of faith and is enjoyed by many readers of many faiths?

That question too is easily answered.

Not a darn thing because while Ingram/Spring Arbor does accept work that isn't produced by CBA affiliated publishers and isn't targeted or doctored to appeal to that very conservative audience CBA meant for affiliated publishers to write fiction for, larger Christian bookstores here in the US (because it is only a US thing,) won't accept non-affiliated, non-targeted work. At least not until it sells well elsewhere. That's why you find C.S. Lewis on occasion and of course more recently The Shack on the shelves of larger Christian booksellers. Both authors sold well elsewhere first.

It does seem that CBA is certainly business savvy, doesn't it?

Both of my books have been approved by Ingram/Spring Arbor for distribution to the Christian market. Sadly, here in the US, the Christian market merely represents what CBA affiliated publishers have to offer. Because of this, distribution through Ingram/Spring Arbor doesn't stand to help any non-affiliated publisher or author at all. The merger simply means that narrowly targeted Christian fiction, not intended to be enjoyed by general market readers and set up to be very, very different from the very beginning can now easily flow onto the shelves of larger booksellers. Non-affiliated Christian authors do not get the same treatment in return. Like I said, business savvy not to mention very interesting. ;)